[Comp.Sci.Dept, Utrecht] Note from archiver<at>cs.uu.nl: This page is part of a big collection of Usenet postings, archived here for your convenience. For matters concerning the content of this page, please contact its author(s); use the source, if all else fails. For matters concerning the archive as a whole, please refer to the archive description or contact the archiver.

Subject: [l/m 5/4/2009] rec.backC DISCLAIMER -- Distilled wisdom (1/28) XYZ

This article was archived around: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 12:20:01 +0000 (UTC)

All FAQs in Directory: backcountry-faq
All FAQs posted in: rec.backcountry
Source: Usenet Version

Archive-name: backcountry-faq/part1 news.answers: follows Disclaimer.
Distilled wisdom (panel 1) This is rec.backcountry. And the poster is the assistant to the r.b.nimng ranger (he's a ranger, not the net.police or net.sheriff as some would like). Read the warnings, read the disclaimer, and if you are reading this in news.answers, read the special addition, and maybe the Table of Contents following the electronic zoological report. Be warned: 1) The "outdoors" are HAZARDOUS, LETHAL, FATAL, TERMINAL w/o extreme prejudice. As of this count, more than three readers of this group are now former-readers (see panel 16 for a combined count). Anyone, including highly experienced people, can be killed. We have buried our own dead FOR REAL. 2) The information given in this chain of postings should be taken with a grain of salt. Failure to heed this advice goes back to warning 1. This goes for information with economic consequences. 3) There is no such thing as an "outdoors expert." Experienced people realize this. The mountain does not know that you are an expert. A person is an expert in a subject when he not only knows everything you can learn about it, he also knows which of that stuff is wrong. Marilyn vos Savant 4) A memorial to my friends, our friends, our fallen comrades, our admirations is integrated as a rec.climbing FAQ panel. Why climbing? Most were climbers. "A man's got to know his limitations..." --Harry Callahan, Magnum Force [Also quoted by Galen Rowell] This news group is unmoderated This group has a rating potential of X (or A) [sometimes sexually explicit material is posted], but this is rare. If the MPAA were rating, R rated posts appear in less than 1% of the posts. Parents must be aware of this. No central authority currently exists for complaints. Don't complain to me. Use rec.scouting (also unmoderated, also has X potential). Most posts are G or PG-13. Group flame wars: Most flame wars never get above 1st degree burns. A rare war will have a 2nd degree flame. Third degree flames typically affect the wider net (e.g., C/S green card posts, pyramid scams, etc.) i.e., "greater, deeper damage." Very rare here. "Is this all there is?" "Yes." DISCLAIMER: "Books are not a substitute for skill, nor can they make safe those who do not practice the principles of safety. Books are not substitutes for training. We do not wish to discourage people who have age old urges. But they can answer simple problems and questions. It is urged that the inexperienced avail themselves of instruction, training, and mentorship. We would counsel you remember the virtues of progressive training: ... you crawled before you walked and walked before you ran. It would be well to take your pioneering in little nibbles rather than big leaps. Try the easy off trail walks first, then the easy peaks, then the harder ones, always covering yourself with a good route of retreat and plenty of time to make it. And always herald the philosophy of Norman Clyde: The mountain will always be there tomorrow. Aim to be able to say the same of yourself." Adapted from the words of (the late) Hervey Voge and David Brower. The history of rec.backcountry began in the late 1980s. It is a child of the rec.skiing (net.ski) news group and the climbing mailing list started by Fritz Nordby at Caltech (now defunct). Before you recommend a split, you should realize that backcountry has split. The children of rec.backcountry include such notable news groups as rec.boats.paddle, rec.hunting, rec.climbing, rec.scouting, alt.fishing, rec.outdoors.fishing, and numerous other groups. news.answers: This post is the first part of a 28 part experimental FAQ post (a chain). The other 27 parts are listed in the contents below. The other 27 parts are posted one day at a time. These additional parts are NOT posted to news.answers but can be read by temporarily subscribing to rec.backcountry. The composition of all attributes in the contents and Header were deliberately set for the instrumentation and experimentation toward discussion self-moderation and maintenance (for instance "FAQ" appears no where in the Subject line; the host is also a special host, etc.). The chain's headers (Subject line) are useful like a light house beacon. The post is issued at the same time from the same host on each of those days: this makes a useful network metric. Failed postings imply either the posting host dying, or a network connection dropping/failing. These posts are also a useful test of literacy (how far you read, how well you read, etc.). Occasionally you will see uninformed people read and comment about them (they didn't reach this paragraph, or the message didn't reach them, or they have not figure out what's going on [clueless]). There is alot going on here and its all very deliberate. Well,... not all. ;^) Electronic Zoological content of this backcountry: SO far we have readers who would be (Hey! One life at a time, please): Flyers: Cliff swallow Whip-poor-will 3 Buzzards (1 Buteo buteo) 2 Red tailed hawk 2 Eagles Mallard duck Fulvous Whistling-Duck Another duck Ptarmigan Turkey Vulture Great Horned Owl Spotted Owl Snowy Owl Owl Hawk 2 Ravens Crow Peregrine Falcon 3 Bats Loon Chough (pronounced "chuff".) Pyrrhocorax graculus Skua "subtle"-apteryx Peacock Puffin Parrot NA ground mammals 2 Yellow bellied marmot Moose Jack Rabbit Bunny rabbit Snowshoe hare Bighorn sheep 3 Mountain Goats 4 Otter (maybe 1 river) Mule (female) Donkey Burro Sloth 3 possums 2 Racoons Poodle (with a Mohawk, Pampered Poodle with Perm) 2 Lynx (1 Canadian) 3 cougars or panther (black, of course and 1 garden-variety golden type) 1 domestic cat 1 bob cat 3 coyotes 2 Grizzly Bears 4 Black Bears Kodiak Bear (she) Poohbear 2 Polar Bears Sun Bear 1 non descript Bear (ro-) Yogi bear Russian bear 2 Wolverines 10 Wolves (4 Timber) Fisher White-tailed deer 3 Skunk 1 Vixen (female fox) Mountain Fox Weasel Porcupine Pine marten 2 Llama Homo erectus Hodag Beaver Prairie dog Pika Chipmunk Wombat Muskox Razorback Rat Water species Sperm Whale Orca 4 Dolphin Manta Ray Man-O-War muskellunge Giant squid (ala 20K leagues under the sea) Golden Trout (with the Right Stuff) Piranha Lobster African/Asian species Ring Tailed Lemur 2 Elephant (1 - African) Lion (King of the jungle) Oryx 2 Tiger (1- white) Snow Leopard Reptiles Tuatara lizard Galapagos tortoise Crocodile Terrapin Amph: Salamander Newt 2 Frog Insects: Spider Dragonfly Banana slug Cricket Plants: Lichen Western Red Cedar Slime mold Fungus (Tinea cruris) Amoeba: 2 Giardia lamblia Misc. Ent T. Rex Velociraptor 2 Yeti Lurkerus Wannabemorhikerii Shape shifter Griffin Gryphen Wooly Mammoth wildsurmise skookum betazoid Lastly, The formation of a usenet group on caving has long been a subject of controversy. Most cavers that live in the US and Australia prefer that caving remain "low profile", while cavers in Europe prefer a "high profile" approach. Much of this has to do with the type of caves and caving that occur in these regions, and the differences in conservation ethics. There are different types of resource management for different types of cave systems. Due to the often extensive destruction of cave resources that seems to occur in the US after a cave location has been made public, it was decided by the international caving community to keep electronic caving within a moderated mailing list (see below). This ensured that caves suffer minimal destruction, while still allowing caving information to be distributed on a world wide basis. This also made certain that information could reach the maximum number of individuals (e-mail is MUCH more extensive and reliable than usenet access). Alt.caving was formed in spite of opposition from the caving community. It was not formed by anyone associated with caves OR caving. The person that formed this group was actually interested in hollow-earth phenomenon, tombs, etc. Because the person forming this group also botched the formation process, it it NOT carried by many systems. This means that distribution is EXTREMELY limited and most people are unable to see or respond to this newsgroup. So what does all of the above mean? 1) Most of the experienced cavers CAN'T see or respond to the questions on alt.caving. Their news feeds don't carry it. It is unlikely that you will receive responses to your posts. 2) Because it was formed IN SPITE OF the cavers opposition, and because the group is unmoderated, the VERY few cavers that can see alt.caving are willing to give information out. They expect the person that is truly interested in caving to join the cavers mailing list, like everyone else. Again, because the mailing list is carried via e-mail, the maximum number of people can get it, and respond to it. Also remember, the cavers are only trying to protect the caves. Once a cave is destroyed, it is PERMANENT. 3) Because it lacks the support of the caving community, the information posted on alt.caving is suspicious, at the very best. The majority of people posting to the group are individuals with limited experience. (The more experienced cavers know about the mailing list and post there). Because most of the people posting to alt.caving ARE of limited experience, the information has a higher probability of being wrong, or only good for a certain type of cave. 4) The cavers are NOT trying to keep you from caving. Most cavers realize that it is impossible to learn caving from an electronic forum. There will be too many holes in the information provided. NOTHING can equal training. If the cavers are reluctant to give out information, it is because they are trying to ensure that you seek out and receive training from an instructor that knows what they are doing. Both rec.backcountry and rec.climbing are monitored by cavers. They will provide you with resources for training IF you ask for it. YOU CAN GET KILLED WHILE CAVING, especially if you don't know what you are doing! Of course, all individuals that are truly interested in caving are invited to join the cavers mailing list. See below for details. - Cindy Heazlit, NSS 22980F Any comments on the above should be directed to: cheazlit@ix.netcom.com Please put alt.caving in the subject line. In the US, the national caving organization is the NSS at http://www.caves.org/ Caving can't be learned from a book. The best way to learn about caving in the US (or anywhere else) is to join a local caving club, usually an NSS Grotto. Try: http://www.nssio.org/Find_Grotto.cfm The discussion Website http://forums.caves.org/ is for people who want to learn about caving as well as for active and formerly active cavers. This is not a US-only discussion group; anyone can join. One thing is forbidden: cave locations, because caves get trashed and beginners may need to get rescued or even die if they don't know what they're doing. [This doesn't supercede anything that Cindy Heazlitt has in her paragraphs about the Cavers Digest, which still apply.] From Panel 26, Caving: Send all submissions to cavers@caversdigest.com Send all subscribe/unsubscribe requests to jolsen@novonyx.com Visit the website at http://www.caversdigest.com/ In the UK: uk.rec.caving TABLE OF CONTENTS of this chain: 1/ DISCLAIMER <* THIS PANEL *> 2/ Ethics 3/ Learning I 4/ learning II (lists, "Ten Essentials," Chouinard comments) 5/ Summary of past topics 6/ Non-wisdom: fire-arms topic circular discussion 7/ Phone / address lists 8/ Fletcher's Law of Inverse Appreciation / Rachel Carson / Foreman and Hayduke 9/ Water Filter wisdom 10/ Volunteer work 11/ Snake bite 12/ Netiquette 13/ Questions on conditions and travel 14/ Dedication to Aldo Leopold 15/ Leopold's lot. 16/ Backcountry mortality 17/ Information about bears 18/ Poison ivy, frequently ask, under question 19/ Lyme disease, frequently ask, under question 20/ "Telling questions" backcountry Turing test 21/ AMS 22/ Babies and Kids 23/ A bit of song (like camp songs) 24/ What is natural? 25/ A romantic notion of high-tech employment 26/ Other news groups of related interest, networking 27/ Films/cinema references 28/ References (written) -- Looking for an H-912 (container).