[Comp.Sci.Dept, Utrecht] Note from archiver<at>cs.uu.nl: This page is part of a big collection of Usenet postings, archived here for your convenience. For matters concerning the content of this page, please contact its author(s); use the source, if all else fails. For matters concerning the archive as a whole, please refer to the archive description or contact the archiver.

Subject: An alt.support.depression Sampler - part 1 of 3

This article was archived around: 12 Oct 2000 09:27:14 GMT

All FAQs in Directory: alt-support-depression/An-ASD-Sampler
All FAQs posted in: alt.support.depression
Source: Usenet Version


Archive-name: alt-support-depression/An-ASD-Sampler/part1 Posting-Frequency: bi-weekly Last-modified: 1999/3/29 Maintainer: Stewart/sna <metaphor@usaor.net>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ An alt.support.depression Sampler ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Is this an "official" post of some kind?? No. This is *not* an official post of alt.support.depression (ASD). This post (in 3 parts) has been approved by the moderators of the *.answers usenet newsgroups. Approval by the moderators of the *.answers newsgroups means that; (1) these posts can appear on the moderated usenet newsgroups, news.answers and alt.answers (2) these posts will be archived on the rtfm.mit.edu anonymous FTP server (ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/alt/support/depression/) (3) these posts can be "autoposted" using a FAQ server run by rtfm.mit.edu. Is this some kind of FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)?? Over the 2 years that I have been reading alt.support.depression, there have been many discussions about what should or should not be posted, and about what this group is or is not. On several occasions people have suggested that a FAQ be formulated to put down on paper (as it were) the expectations that members of this group have of each other. I am sorry, and happy, to say that I have not been able to compile such a document. If this is a FAQ, then it is a very unconventional FAQ. Aside from the FAQ-style Questions and Answers here in the beginning of this post, that explain what this post is and is not, the rest of this post does not conform to the usual FAQ format. If this is not a FAQ, then what the heck is it?? This alt.support.depression Sampler is an attempt to collect some of the simple expressions of personal experience that make alt.support.depression (ASD) such an important place. This Sampler cannot be all things to all people. Most of the posts to ASD will never find their way into this Sampler simply because this is only a *very* small "sample" of what is posted to ASD, and because so much of ASD simply does not fit into this very limited and constrained format. Anything less than the whole of every single post to ASD reflects the hand of whomever chooses to sift and winnow through the 300+ posts that find their way to ASD each day. Thus this Sampler reveals as much about myself and my own personal values, as it does about ASD and the people who participate here. Although I sometimes find life very painful, I personally do not really want to die. But to leave ASD is to die here in metaphor. So, when I leave ASD, I would like to leave behind a little bit of myself so that I might somehow live on. I thought this list might be a good way to do that. Perhaps this Sampler can act as an "indirect FAQ by example" for ASD. In a way, I guess this Sampler provides an indirect and rambling answer to the question "what is this newsgroup all about". The real and complete answer to this question, however, cannot be contained in any summary, digest, or sampler. The real answer to this question can only be found in the statement "this group is what we make it when we post to it". The real answer to this question can only be found here on ASD each and every day. If I don't have a post in this list, does it mean all of my posts are worthless?? No. Absolutely not. As I said above, this is only a *very* small sample of ASD, and most of ASD simply does not fit this format. In addition, about 90% of the entries here were chosen by me. So if your words are not found in this Sampler, then it likely means that *I* did not, for whatever random or twisted reasons, pick out something that you have said. I really wish you would nominate something you said. If I don't have a post in this list, does it mean that I am worthless?? No. Absolutely not. See the answer to the question above. Is this list static, or set in stone?? No. It is my personal belief that this ASD Sampler is only useful if it continues to be updated by those who read ASD. Not only is the content of this list modified by what people say on ASD, but even the very name of this list has been modified based on feedback from readers. If you have read or said something that you think should be included here then please submit it to me by e-mail (metaphor@usaor.net). If you are not the person who posted what you submitted to me, then I will try to contact the original "owner" of the post and ask them if they mind that we include their words in this list. Where can I find a "real" FAQ for ASD?? There are other informal FAQ-style posts that appear on ASD from time to time. However, the only FAQ-style post that is currently approved by the moderators of *.answers for posting on ASD is the "alt.support.depression FAQ" (in 5 parts). This FAQ is very informative with respect to depression, but it contains relatively little information related specifically to ASD. For more information related specifically to ASD, you should check out http://www.lava.net/~dewilson/asd/ as a resource. What is up with the SPAMBLOCK. in all the e-mail addresses?? I have been getting more unsolicited e-mail (SPAM) than I care to receive. I am sure that a lot of it is because jerks use programs to "harvest" return e-mail addresses from the "headers" of usenet posts. Although I do not think that such programs harvest e-mail addresses from the "body" of usenet posts, I have added the term "SPAMBLOCK." to each e-mail address. If you want to respond to someone who posted something that is in this list, you will need to manually remove the "SPAMBLOCK." from the address. 2, 4, 6, 8, who do we appreciate?? If it is not obvious, I want to thank all of those who have consented to have their words placed here. In addition, I want to thank in advance anyone who responds and gives me feedback of any kind. If you find anything on this list that you do not like for any reason, please let me know. So where is this ASD Sampler already?? It starts right below. It is in three parts, with the oldest quotes first and more recent quotes at the end of the third part. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ An alt.support.depression Sampler, part 1 of 3 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kimma Rock <kimma@ids.net> wrote: Like my ideas, feelings, opinions, and actions are somehow invalid or otherwise compromised because I was in the loony bin, or because I have faulty brain chemistry and an American Tourister showroom full of baggage. John Timothy <johntim@ix.netcom.com> wrote: Subject line: A message from your mother It's a lovely day outside!! Would you PLEASE stop spending so much time at that computer. Why don't you at least take a little walk, get some fresh air? A little physical activity wouldn't hurt you. Don't forget to wear your jacket!! Cindi James <Cindij@cris.com> ended a somewhat harsh response with: Cindi pulling on her flame retardant leather undies. Sslasher <sslasher@aol.com> wrote: Ever been told you're "overqualified" for the position available? Now what the fuck is that supposed to mean, and what can you possibly say in return? "Oh, don't worry, I'm much dumber than my resume makes me out to be?" William Reynolds wrote: Today I feel ill, dizzy, and weak, my guts in turmoil. And while I'm reasonably certain this is so, I wonder if my head has directed my body to misbehave. There is plenty to be angry about these days and I cannot be sure if it is swallowed food or swallowed anger that has made me ill. u1006057@host.warwick.net wrote: Over and over again the Bible says, "Believe in God, and you will see good things happen." The Bible has it completely backwards, I think. A true profession of faith is, instead, "See good things in what happens, and you will believe in God!" Religious beliefs ask us to celebrate the good things in life. To seek them out, and enjoy what pleasures we can while we are alive. Thus, the proper prayer of thanksgiving is not, "Thank you God, for all of the great things in my life", but rather, "Thank you, God, for giving me the ability to enjoy what pleasures there are in my life!" Sslasher <sslasher@aol.com> wrote an opinion on how to avoid a flame war: If someone says "I think shock therapy is so great that everyone should try it", and you don't agree, the proper response ought to be; "Many people have had a bad experience with shock treatment and it is not for everyone". One should NOT say; "You are obviously the product of 200 years of inbreeding, and you are a moronic insensitive clod who should take your asinine opinions elsewhere". APsychoS <apsychos@aol.com> wrote: I will send you directions on how to assemble these lights along with a materials list and directions for use. I am a Clinical Psychologist with 10 years experience treating SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder). Send $5.00 along with a stamped, self addressed envelope to.... johntim@ix.netcom.com(John Timothy) wrote in response: Of course, you COULD just post that info here on ASD and let everybody have it for free, but I guess that wouldn't be the American way, would it? <sigh> Alan Harding <Alan@harding.demon.co.uk> has been known to use the following signature file: The opinions given above may be mine. They might also just be what I feel like saying right now, okay? "David N. Brock" <dnbcba@onramp.net> posted the following to several support groups: Available for your inspection. A medical emergency I.D. card that could save your life. For complete information go to . . . (www-site-deleted). "Nicole" <ngelina@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> responded with: I want a card that says "No, I really mean it this time. Please leave me alone." Cindi James <Cindij@cris.com> used the following sig file "from the land of reduced expectations": Life is good. My toilet hasn't overflowed once today. "Barb Toews" <bcole@netbistro.com> wrote: Am I asking for suggestions or advice? I suppose. Whatever I get will be stored away in my mailbox for those furtive moments when I have the energy to read and respond to them. Mostly, I am just glad for a newsgroup where I can beak off and blurb it all out and that's okay. Jane <anon-11180@anon.twwells.com> wrote: I managed to crawl out of the lowest level of hell, step-by-step, stair-by-stair, memorizing each mural on the wall of each level of Hell. I finally made it out. But describe to me the picture that you see and I will tell you what level of Hell you are in. It took *that* long for me to get out. So, here, I am. Hopeful for all of you, knowing that there is an end to the madness and darkness. John Timothy <johntim@ix.netcom.com > responded to a question about the DSM4: The DSM4 is a big fat book that your public library probably has. However, if you're trying to diagnose yourself, you might want to get a second opinion. Like, sit down with a therapist AND the book. That way, you're not totally dependent on the discrimination and judgment of someone whose critical faculties MAY be impaired by a mood disorder. If you know what I mean. The Black Knight <mixmaster@aldebaran.armory.com> wrote: But what do you do when people complain to you? Do you say, "Well geez, sorry, but I was so fucking depressed that I couldn't stand the thought of dealing with you and all the shit that accompanies it"? The Black Knight <mixmaster@aldebaran.armory.com> wrote: My Doc is just so fucking out of it! She says to me, "I wish I had your intelligence." Yeah, well, you get depression along with it, free of charge! Don't you get it, stupid? The two are interrelated, intertwined. Then I get, "well, it sounds to me like you're being a little self-pitying." Well, fuck-you-very-much, Doctor. Until you've gone through the hell of depression, don't fucking talk to me about self-pity, you complacent bitch! She is so fucking smug and self-righteous. "Aldo J. Tartaglini, Ph.D." <staff@surfself.com> wrote in response: Doctors who address patients in an insensitive manner are in need of remedial supervision. If finding another doctor is not feasible for you at this time, you should let your doctor know how angry her comments make you. She works for you. She needs to learn how she can be most helpful to you. A supervisor once told me "patients are the best supervisors". By this he meant that the patient knows him/herself better than the doctor ever will and can therefore provide crucial information and clues that can maximize the doctor's chances of effectively assisting the patient. The doctor-patient relationship is much more of an equal partnership than some doctors may care to admit. They need to be reminded of this from time to time. James Houck <james.houck@fallon.com> wrote: This is my first post. Not just my first post here - my first post ever . . . . I'll share my personal beasts but not first thing. It is, I suppose, impolite to let one's own personal beasts out to play with other peoples personal beasts without an initial round of introductions. <spatzer@deathsdoor.com> wrote: Subject: Depressed about fat and/or ugly chicks I'm new to this group and I am depressed because all I see are fat and/or ugly women. Don't laugh! Women have really let themselves go over the past 20 years! Don't they realize that men are really getting depressed over about it? This is a very serious issue so please be serious with me. Men now have to compete against each other for the very few slim, attractive women that are out there. This leads to depression. If all women would take care of themselves we can rid ourselves of this type of depression! <bunny@animal.blarg.net> responded with: And the Armenian judges give it a 5.6 on the Olympic Troll-O-Meter! <tgnardin@aol.com> responded with: More like 9.95. What a jerk! <bunny@animal.blarg.net> responded back with: The Armenian judges lodge a formal protest! It was sufficiently trollish, of course, but way too obvious. It was poorly written, poorly executed, and was so incredibly lame as to lack the true drawing power of a really masterful troll. Maybe as high as a 5.9 for the sheer stupidity of the premise, but a 9.8? Never! The Armenian judges tear their hair out, throw their balalaikas down in dismay, and perform the traditional Armenian Dismay Chant! They demand a recount! Editors note: In the meantime, this one post generated over 100 responses in it's thread alone, not to mention spawning several other threads that had their fair share of responses. Seems like it was an ineffective trolling device in theory, but quite effective empirically. anna wrote: I think of ASD as a great big house, with all you guys in it. Like a commune. People are hanging out together, talking in groups or to me. Some people are in a room with the door closed, talking together, helping each other in ways I don't know about. And I wander through the rooms and corridors, stopping, listening, moving on if there's nothing I can contribute, but always, *always*, glad to be here. Some people or conversations I avoid. Some people are mean, or abrupt, and I am vulnerable. Some conversations scare me, or worry me, or are too high-brow for me to understand. Some people I'm afraid I can't say anything to. Some people here are so far *out there*, are so close to the edge, in such agony that I am helpless, and I feel that I, with my trifling experience, would hurt more than I could help if I were to try to touch. Others here are far more skilled at caring, listening and supporting than I am, but I'm learning. And other people, who have been around longer than I have, I'm a bit in awe of, maybe a tiny bit scared of. I feel privileged if they respond to my posts, and I look up to them like I used to look up to the big kids in the school playground. I blush and feel awkward when I speak to them. I feel most at home with fellow newbies, because I know that they probably feel as lost as me, and are probably as desperate for a friend as I am. In this house (the ASD house), moods change with the day of the week and the time of day. Friday and Saturday nights there's a party mood. People stay up too late, and don't make sense, and have to be told to go to bed. But as soon as they've gone off to bed, the early shift is up. Sitting in their dressing-gowns, rubbing their eyes, drinking coffee (as I see them). Catching the tail end of the night-time conversations and carrying on. There is always life in this house, and always love. If I'm in tears, someone will always make us coffee, pull up a chair and put their arm round me. If I'm angry, someone will help me snort and fume in a fury of indignation. If I'm happy, someone will always share it, and I can always double it by giving some (I hope) to someone else. And you guys, who are so real. Your words turn into three dimensional human beings who talk to me and tell me what I need to hear. Why don't I meet people like you guys in real life? Maybe I do, but we just don't recognize each other. candis1234@aol.com wrote: I wondered if the group would be willing to let me be the escrow agent for the two cents that are posted every day on ASD? Right now, I think I've collected about 18 cents and I'm sure that there is more to come. Pennies add up, ya know. gmckenna@computrek.org wrote: You need to be a member? How do I apply? What are the requirements? Editors note: Shit, am *I* a member?? How do *I* apply?? What are the requirements?? Michael Leatherman <lifelite@gte.net> wrote by way of qualifying his own opinion: My judgment CAN get a bit screwy from time to time! Alan Harding <Alan@harding.demon.co.uk> responded with: Along with "your mileage may vary" (YMMV), this has to be one of the universal truths around here. Stewart/sna <sna@prophet.pharm.pitt.edu> wrote in response to a newbie delurk post: Welcome to the group. Heard you loud and clear. Care to tell us more?? We are like one big poorly trained therapist with 1000 eyes,1000 hands, and 1,000,000 stupid ideas. But we are FUCKING FREE. Ain't that a hoot?? FUCKING FREE ARE WE. Cindy Van Camp <rexy@cyberhighway.net> wrote: My youngest son had his tonsils out. I took him home and a few hours later, he stopped breathing. Called 911 after trying to revive him myself. I have never felt so helpless in my life. The paramedics saved him. He is fine now. He had a delayed reaction to the codeine they gave him for pain. My baby. I will never take my kids for granted again!!! Stephen Valianatos <stvali32@primenet.com> responded with: This only goes to show I was right about mentally ill people not being able to handle the responsibilities of children, you should put your babies up for adoption if you love them. But then again, your babies are probably mentally ill because of your behavior, and no one would want them anyway. It is clear you have no business raising children in your condition. Editors note: You can bet this response from Stephen generated a lot of angry mail. It is included in this Sampler, not because there is a single appropriate, good, or funny response to it, but rather because ASD, Cindy, and even Stephen continue despite it. Ruby <anon-10651@anon.twwells.com> wrote in response to a troll: YOU !!! OUT OF THE GENE POOL !!! meerkat <tbarsh01@sprynet.com> wrote the following after reading this Sampler: Hey !! Everything that I write is a priceless pearl of infinite wisdom. All of my words should be written down on parchment and engraved in stone for posterity. Dart <anon-11276@anon.twwells.com> wrote: I am glad that you find solace in your religion. However, having been brought up in the same faith, and having been depressed since childhood, I find that I have no faith in *your* god. I take no blame for the mental state I am in. I've been told that *HE* gave it to me, as a test. I am not Job. I have test anxiety. I was *BORN* like this. Joseph F. Salerno Jr. <SALERNO@USA1.COM> wrote: How do I use this?? Virginia Lore <vlore@u.washington.edu> responded as follows: With interest, with honesty, with humility, with playfulness. You can rant, rave, or crawl cautiously below the crossfire. You can pool your wit and wisdom with ours, take what you need, add back when you've got some extra. You can come and go at will, hug and poke and handshake. Try an experiment, throw out a line and see what comes back. Diane Wilson <diane.wilson@pobox.com> wrote: There is a difference between sacrifice and codependency. Sacrifice is a gift. Codependency is demanding that the gift be appreciated. Yolanda@interacc.com wrote: Subject: I ejaculated today I am so excited! I have not been able to come in months, since I started taking my antidepressant. It used to take me so long to cum that I just would not bother. Today, I tried for the first time in weeks and Wow!! Editors note: So sue me. I am a man and I could relate to this. PitWithAVu <cobolwiz@concentric.net> wrote in response to a post about parental love: Wow, how fortunate for you to be from such a home. I don't think (if you asked them) that any of our parents would say they don't love us. But generally, parents love a child and express their love in a way that is meaningful to *them* (the parents). However, what the child needs is love expressed in a way that is meaningful to the *them* (the child). Barb <bay@mr.net> responded to a post about "ESSENTIAL OILS AND AROMATHERAPY" with: Please take your "essence of spam" and....<bleeeeeeeep!!!> Cheryl Shipman <cshipman@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote: For those of us that are practicing opening up, ASD can be a less frightening and less risky place than "real life". After all, if I decide this post is too revealing of me, I can always delete it without sending it. And knowing that leaves me brave enough to finish it, and then, what the heck . . . let it go out there. Lioness <actlimit@ripco.com> wrote in support of Cristi Cave: {{{{{ Cristi }}}}} Cyberhugs are a nice convention, I just wish that they didn't feel so inadequate. Cristi Cave <ladywolf@halcyon.com> responded with: Well, they didn't feel inadequate from *this* end. My God, everyone here has been so incredible. I don't have enough time to respond adequately to the love and support that I've received. Not even so much numbers, it's the *quality* of caring that got to me. Yes, you got through to me. I was in a living Hell there for awhile. But thanks partly to you, I've recovered my balance, at least momentarily. I've managed to settle down enough to participate in painfully open dialogue with the love of my life and we have reached an understanding, just this evening. There was a lot of fear and pain there, but every bit of the love is still there, and still intact. And it looks like we're intact, too. {{{{{ ASD }}}}} Joseph A. Ferreira MD <jferreira@earthlink.net> wrote: First and second opinions offered on medical conditions. To contact the doctor for more information or with questions visit our web site or call . . . . Barb <bay@mr.net> responded with: Go away until we look like we are trying to use the Yellow Pages rather than participate in a support group. Cheryl Shipman <cshipman@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote: My therapist has an unwitting contribution to the Sampler. She tells me: "analysis not paralysis". Right up there with the definition of Psychoanalysis as: "care of the id by the odd". Editors note: I don't think these were really "original words used here on ASD", but what the heck. Stevie Mark Nielsen <nielsens@ccmail.orst.edu> wrote: I don't have much tolerance for trolls, but I do try to remember they are (most likely) people too, and they probably need some kind of help. I just don't know what to do for them. Perhaps we need some scientific/medical research into "trollness" as a behavior disorder. Is there any such thing as Chronic Asshole Disorder? Diane Wilson <diane.wilson@pobox.com> responded with the correct DSM4 definitions: Chronic asshole disorder, infantile Chronic asshole disorder, adolescent Bipolar chronic asshole disorder Dissociative asshole disorder Borderline asshole disorder Atypical asshole disorder Chronic asshole disorder, not otherwise specified Michael Sangree <sangree@neca.com wrote: Subject: Anybody else have multiple orgasms on Nardil? I mean, not me, but heck, if there were a pretty girl out there who did, and she had like a boss car like a Firebird or an IROC-Z, well, if she had a driver's license and money, I'd be more than willing to trade lessons in WordPerfect 4.2 or IBM Displaywrite III, which looks like it's called "eye-eye-eye", but that's actually a Roman Numeral for 3, which means it's even cooler than like if it just had a 3. Plus, I have a big cookie jar full of Nardil, because I've been pretending to take it but actually saving it for my multiorgasmic Nardil-taking honey, whom I just know is out there, dying to learn Wordstar or Multimate, did I mention those too, howabout Wang, I have one, I'm an expert user, call now, operators are sort of standing by. I love you totally in advance for your compassionate efforts to overlook my big tummy, Editors note: No, *I* do not have a clue what this is all about. But hey, you don't have to understand something intellectually to laugh and learn from it. Leaf <@anon.twwells.com> responded as follows to the question of why one testicle hangs lower than the other: Well, obviously a woman's more objective voice is needed here. One necessarily hangs lower to accommodate the brain. Gemma <anon-13201@anon.twwells.com> wrote: If depression is such a treatable disease, why are we all here? It seems like many, if not most, of us have been trying different meds and therapies for years. wombn <wombn@mindspring.com> responded with: Many diseases cannot be cured once-and-for-all, but instead, are "managed". I think depression is that way for lots of folks. My depressions have had such a profound affect on me and my life that, most times, I only find a common understanding with others who have gone through similar experiences. Gemma <anon-13201@anon.twwells.com> has used the following signature file: Gemma, who, after all, has once again decided to refuse to give up. Jill Merrill <jem-drm@worldnet.att.net> wrote: I'm not much of a "newsgroup type" because I'm scared of crowds. So reading ASD feels like walking into a huge party where everyone knows each other except me. I feel both ten feet tall and invisible. I've gotten a lot out of corresponding with other depressed people. It's just that e-mail is more my style, and lately I seem to have more time than e-mail. An empty inbox is a sad thing indeed. Michael Fried <peacemon@mn.uswest.net> wrote: I am a clinical intern doing psychotherapy. A client of mine found on-line relationships to be his most intimate and least anxiety-producing. I am conducting exploratory research, to better assess and treat clients who report spending time on-line. I will make the results of my research available. Stewart/sna <sna@prophet.pharm.pitt.edu> responded with: I am quite sure that you mean well, but it is *my personal* opinion that ASD is here for people who need support or who feel the need to give support. I hope that you can actually participate in ASD. Short of that, I am quite sure you will not find anything even remotely close to what you are looking for. Michael Fried <peacemon@mn.uswest.net> then asked: How would one respectfully sample on-line users for research purposes such as mine? Stewart/sna <sna@prophet.pharm.pitt.edu> took off his clothes and tried again: Consider this metaphor/analogy. ASD is like one big orgy. We are all here getting naked and having sex with one another. I mean we are really naked. Really having sex with each other. Then along comes someone wearing a white lab coat who says: "This is fascinating. I have heard that people get naked and have sex like this. I want to help other people with their naked sexual experiences. Does anyone here on ASD mind if I put electrodes on their private parts to record what is going on. I promise to compile a lot of statistics and to report back to the group and to the world at large all about this interesting naked sex thing that goes on here." When the response is less than enthusiastic, the researcher in the white lab coat says; "I don't get it. Why don't people on ASD think this is a good idea. Don't they understand how interesting this is? Don't they understand how they can help me personally and professionally? Don't they understand how they can help others out there in the big old world?" In point of fact, I think we *DO* understand all of those things. But what I understand now, even more than ever, is that ASD is a process that takes place in a context. ASD is not a product that results from specific content. In other words, you really cannot capture this experience unless you actually take your clothes off and join in the fun!! The more you try to capture the experience with your clothes on, the farther away from it you will find yourself. You will find yourself swaddled in layers upon layers of data, less naked and less sexually fulfilled. Now does anyone have a cigarette? I feel exhausted, and I need a few drags before I drift off to sleep.